Hiatus Chat - Headcanon you forget is actually just headcanon?

[kalliel]

Do you guys have pieces of headcanon where, honestly, you totally forget that it's not actually true? I hold some things to be infallibly true, and it always startles me when I'm thinking about it and I realize that LOL NO THEY'RE NOT. The following are ABSOLUTELY 100% TRUE TO ME:

1. Meg/Roy/Walt happened (and more than once). Meg digs bondage; Roy and Walt are into doubling up. They've been in trouble before, for sexual assault. There was a monging incident as well, though that was never proven and they were never implicated. Meg brings them right back around to that, but in the end it's Walt and Roy who get fucked over. She sends them to Sam and Dean in 5x16. Oh, and Walt actually does speak fluent French. His parents are French Canadian. Roy and Walt have been hunting together since that-one-time-in-Montana.

2. Jessica Moore is from San Jose. Graduated from Archbishop Mitti; her parents are lapsed Catholics, but they still do the holiday stuff, and they do believe in God. She has a brother, younger. Played volleyball in high school--varsity all four years; never played for Stanford. Major in Psychology. Was looking at grad school, but only after a few years off, doing something outside academia. Most of her friends at Stanford are Asian; one from her high school, the others from other parts of CA, and HI. She's really into kinky sex and toys. Sam gets his wallsmash!sex tendencies from her.

3. Lisa's sister's name is Barbara. Barb for short. Older. Played by Julie Dretzin. She's in real estate (as is her husband), and has always helped Lisa procure her various houses. She lives in Indiana, too. She remembers Dean, though she's not sure if she's actually ever met him.

4. Meg's world is lingual. The original Meg Masters studied a little cognitive science, thought about going into audiology, though she knew she probably wouldn't have the grades, even if she did go back and finish her degree. Meg the demon has some trouble with the human form, particularly in forming English phonemes. She also knows some French; her pronunciation is immaculate but her actual grammar is almost impenetrable. These days, Meg kind of hates it when she chooses a host whose first language isn't English. It's that much harder to find her way around and really settle in; she thinks a lot about these things.

Now I wanna know yours! Any fandom, even if may not necessarily know it. Is it about your OTP? Side characters you've staked a claim to? Did they come from writing fic, or do they just exist in your head for now? Where did they come from--from a random snippet of canon, or did they spring from the ether of imagination?

Comments

[alexadean.livejournal.com]

I had to stop reading at 2 just to say I LOVE YOUR JESSICA MOORE!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG!! WALLSMASH!!

I LOVE HER!

[kalliel]

Bahaha I love her, too! Though it's funny because of all this headcanon hers is probably the most deeply ingrained, and I've actually never had occasion to use most of it in fic. It's just kind of there!

And ahaha this makes me laugh because of our PM conversation about Sam and Dean's different approaches to sex. XD RELEVANT HEADCANON AHOY.

[snickfic]

In canon, Drusilla (pictured in my icon) was tormented by vampires and turned on the day she entered a convent; in my head, places of worship are her favorite hunting grounds. She likes the uncomfortable buzz of all those crosses, she loves the pageantry, and she's fascinated with corrupting other worshippers as she was once corrupted.

Also, it is my headcanon that there was an incident where Dru sent boyfriend vampire Spike to steal the Slayer's sister for her, and he came back, beaten and bruised to report that the Slayer didn't have a sister. (This makes a lot more sense if you're familiar with the origins of the character Dawn.)

I don't have a lot of SPN headcanon, I don't think. Um, I think Sam's long string of brunette flirtations is significant, although I can't decide if it's because he just can't deal with blondes after losing Jess or if it's because Jess was an anomaly and not actually his type.

[kalliel]

(I'm not familiar with Dawn, or actually this series. ...Buffy?) But I love your headcanon for Drusilla--especially at the sense stuff about places of worship. Glorious! Uwaaah headcanon minutiae is just so neat. Thank you for sharing! :D

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

Oooh. I'd have to think, it's been so long since I had time for fic. :(

I have some serious personal canon on Gwen, but if I recall correctly mine pretty much matches yours. :D Other than Gwen I'd say the people I have the most personal cannon on are John Winchester and Jim Murphy, although it has been consistently supported by the comics, anime, and John's journal publications, so everything I mapped out is at the very least *canon lite* in real life, lol.

Hmm. *thinks on it some more*

[kalliel]

That is sad indeed. :((((

Ah, Gwen. <3 I'm curious about your John headcanon! AND PASTOR JIM. <333 I guess I technically have headcanon for him, since basically if you write him ever you need to make stuff up about him, but I haven't had need to access it in years. Though one of my more awkward headcanons is that in addition to being a pastor (by trade and study) he's also Jewish (by blood and family tradition/personal observance). IDEK he makes it work, okay. XP

[kettle-o-fish.livejournal.com]

Oh! I want to play! Your headcanons are so fun and Walt/Roy/Meg has been my headcanon since that one awesome fic you wrote that one time. (I am articulate, no?)

Ok. My headcanon is extensive and born out of fanon, too much thinking, and an obsessive need to explain certain details.

The boys totally tag teamed at least one chick.

Sam and Dean both almost died from the chicken pox. Sam was six and Dean was ten. Sam caught it first. They were in Maine and John left them in a cabin on the mainland with what he thought would be plenty of supplies. However, when he left, Dean hadn't shown symptoms yet and Sam wasn't that bad. He was hunting something on one of the islands and it was January. He got stranded when a blizzard shut down the ferry back to the mainland. Meanwhile, Dean and Sam ran out of supplies. The storm knocked down powerlines and it was the only time that Dean was actually, truly scared for him and Sam because he couldn't even get through to Bobby or Pastor Jim. By the time John made it back to the cabin, they were both too sick to get out of bed. Dean ended up with scars from scratching his spots. Sam fared slightly better because Dean duct taped mittens to his hands.

John Winchester wasn't abusive per se, but he was certainly neglectful and manipulative and he wasn't above using corporal punishment. Ok, fine, he was abusive. One of the reasons that Sam and Dean were so seemingly isolated from the hunting community early in the series is that over the years, many hunters voiced opposition to the way John raised the boys. Bobby called CPS a few times and the shotgun incident came about when Dean wouldn't tell Bobby where he got a particularly nasty set of bruises and Sam told him that John got too drunk one night, which Dean countered with "HE DIDN'T MEAN IT, SAMMY. SHUT UP." Dean was fifteen. Sam was eleven. Pastor Jim regularly begged John to leave the boys with him rather than take them on the road. Bill Harvelle offered to take them in. John never MEANT to hurt the boys...he just...DID.

Bobby left everything to Sam and Dean in his will, as well as a pair of "good" identities in the event they ever have to/want to leave hunting. He actually did pretty well in the salvage business and if Sam and Dean ever wanted to settle down, they'd have enough to be modestly comfortable until they got themselves settled with jobs and stuff. Dean refuses to touch any of it though.

If you ask Dean where he's from, he'll tell you Kansas. If you ask Sam, he'll fumble around a bit before finally settling on "California, I guess."

Sam has struggled with body image issues in the past. It accounts for the crazy changes in his build throughout the series (though meat-truck Sam from S4-5 is also a side effect of the demon blood steroids). He doesn't even realize how little and how poorly he eats. He always hated being the shrimpy kid, but once he surpassed Dean in height, he never felt comfortable with his larger size either.

In college, Sam bought adderall off of Brady during finals. He hit it pretty hard while researching ways to get Dean out of his deal too. Dean found it once and told him to stop...but he didn't.

Dean was all about the recreational drugs in high school. NEVER on a hunt and NEVER when John was around, but yeah, Dean didn't mind toking up or dropping a little acid from time to time. He stopped when Sam came back to the life. It didn't feel right. I mean, Sam was never big on the weed or the psychedelics anyway, but at least Dean could occasionally get high and make him laugh or something. He was SO depressed after Jessica though, Dean really worried about his mental state and the responsibility that he felt toward getting Sam back to at least baseline Sam-ness really sobered him up-- not that Dean was a trainwreck or anything before that. It just didn't feel right afterwards. Dean realized they weren't kids anymore.

And I'm pretty sure that there's more, but I will restrain myself.

OH.Ok. So you know the show Falling Skies? I love Falling Skies. And I've decided that it's an alternate universe of the SPN universe and that Sam and Dean are out there SOMEWHERE in the Falling Skies 'verse. I've actually considered writing crossover fic, I believe this fact so deeply. Yup.

Ok, I'm done. <3

[kalliel]

<3333333 all of these. And kudos to you for picking out Winchester ones, omg. I wouldn't know where to begin with them! I really like your Bobby will headcanon, and Sam's body image one. SO INTRIGUING. And the drug use ones! Dean's certainly hinted that he's done some, and honestly I find it difficult to believe he wouldn't have at least messed around a bit with them. And the way it ties into Jess and Sam, sobbb. So excellent.


I actually don't know the show Falling Skies! I don't watch television; just SPN. /O\ But I definitely know what you mean about crossover headcanon! I think I basically watch a bunch of shitty movies (and actually good movies, though I feel a little more guilty on that count) for the pure purpose of SPN-goggling them. Oh, forget SPN!goggles. I have SPN corneas.

[alexadean.livejournal.com]

My headcanon is always evolving. If someone poses a pretty persuasive argument . . . well, I may just come around.

Can I use this as a means of asking questions? SPN-related of course . . .

How blindsided to you think Dean was when Sam presented his acceptance letter to Stanford? What do you think happened that night?

Do you think Sam told Dean about it when he got it? Or could it be he let Dean know he was applying to colleges and was already thinking of running off?

Do you think he asked Dean to come along with him?

Do you think John played Sam, knowing what he did about the YED's plans? Is it possible John knew Azazel had plans for his boys although the details were vague, so he brought'em up to be warriors? It was his way of toughening them up?

I SHOULD JUST START A POST AND ASK EVERYONE!!

Unfortunately all my SPN questions will involve Sam&Dean, Sam, or Dean, and sometimes John. FYI


Do you think Dean is self-conscious about his legs and avoids wearing shorts? Did Sam wear shorts back in the day?


Sometimes I look at these and I think how awesome a job casting did . . .

How much of the show is intentional? Did they micromanage their expressions? S7 Dean's expressions are eerily like John's. I didn't notice it until I rewatched season 1.

OH, and John's leather jacket . . . we see Dean claim it in the pilot episode for the first time, yet we also see it on Kelly in After School Special. Would John let Dean borrow it occasionally?

Was Dean THIS ANNOYING at this age (early20s)?


Does pursing his lips help Dean aim better?

[kalliel]

You realize I'm just gonna throw these questions back at you and want to hear your headcanons wrt them, right. :P

Dean knew about Sam's applications. He paid the postage fees, even though he was an ass the entire time about it everything. The acceptance wasn't too much of a surprise, either; he has a vague idea that Sam's into that kind of thing, and the Stanford part didn't phrase him because honestly, what does he know/care. A college is a college is a college and if Marcia-from-prom can get into college of course Sam can. Sam didn't really make a scene about it either, just left it on the table, in the back of the car. Visible places, because he's annoying as fuck and it's his turn to tell Dean to kiss his ass. (Pay back, really. For all the shit Dean gave him about his personal statement.)

Dean didn't really realize he was serious 'til the night he left. Oh, he probably knew. Deep down, he knew. He knows he knew. But he always kind of figured--well. When Sam asked him to come along and Dean said hell no, for some reason he assumed that meant Sam was gonna call the whole thing off, like the lamest episode of Punk'd of all fucking time.

John didn't know about Azazel until much later, around the time he started getting sparse around Dean. After Stanford, but long before the hoodoo thing in New Orleans. But after Mary died, it just kind of happened that way. A precaution here, a paranoia there. John knew that the only way he could hope to protect his sons was to make sure they could protect themselves. They needed to be prepared. It's something, he thinks--and not without bitterness, a bitterness he hates himself for--Mary didn't give him the chance to be.

[salty-catfish.livejournal.com]

Can I just say that I adore how unexpected and specific your headcanon is?

[kalliel]

Truthfully, I am rather fond of its little things, too. Though most of them have no direct bearing on any fics or anything because ultimately, much of it really really does not matter. I like to think that randomly ~knowing these things affects my characterizations of these people strongly-yet-indirectly, but who knows?

<3

[honeylocusttree.livejournal.com]

I don't really have much but I definitely share the 'John was physically abusive' headcanon. Just because it makes sense--he was a man, isolated from society, raising two boys in a world where all real problems could be solved with violence. There was no tempering influence anywhere, it seems harder to imagine he *didn't* hit his kids than that he did. But I don't think he did it out of cruelty but because raising two kids would be tough, and frankly it's easier to get stuff done if your kids are scared of you. Though I think it was more of an issue with Dean than Sam, given how readily Sam talks back. So Dean probably took the brunt of it.

Future headcanon is that Dean and Sam don't settle down somewhere and buy a house, because that is horrible and depressing. Maybe they die or maybe they stay on the road together, but there's nothing bleaker than an ending where characters give up the main thing that defines them, so I hope to god the series doesn't end that way.

[kalliel]

Yeah, I agree. I'd need to be convinced that it was particularly pre-meditated--like, And now is the designated hour to hit you! or like, getting all this ceremonious shit ready (thanks, fandom)--but I'd be surprised if it didn't just happen now and again.

And yes, that is indeed pretty horrifying. Often fun and horrifying, and sweet-but-tragic-and-terrifying (curtain!fic messes with my braaaaaain and I love it) but I wouldn't want the actualfax series to end that way. How fucked up would that be? O__o;; Plus it'd be kind of weird because it'd be like, 'and then we pursued normalcy and this is how to do it!' Itinerant can be normal, too?

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. The more I look at the series, the more that headcanon solidifies -- there's the way Dean immediately inserts himself *physically* between Sam and John when things start to get heated, there's the way that Dean throws punches when he's angry but Sam doesn't, there's his reaction in DSotM, "when Dad got home"... I don't think it's canon, but there's a lot of potential subtext. My current headcanon is that it was more that John would basically start fist fights with Dean, and Dean wouldn't fight back, much like the 5.18 alley scene with Cas? So Dean sees it as "just a fistfight" and so does John, mostly. I don't think it happened often, but IDK, there's just a lot there for me when I watch.

[alexadean.livejournal.com]

I'm so pissed off right now. I just went on a separate tirade/rant about Dean and John's relationship and I just erased it.

I'm irritated. I'll come back to it when I'm no longer pissed off. ALL THAT WRITING, GONE!!!

Just know that I believe John used military tactics.

[kalliel]

I hate it when that happens!!

[amonitrate.livejournal.com]

It's embarrassing when details from your own fic become headcanon, but I do that. I think because you work for so long on writing something and it lives in your head until it becomes kind of second canon maybe? But I do that all the time, and have to remind myself, no, Lisa's dad is not a cop in canon, for example.

[kalliel]

Bahaha I think my biggest embarrassment in that vein is the Meg/Roy/Walt thing, because there is actually zero basis for them in canon (obviously). Just my writing my fic. And I'd always referred back to having written it for someone else's prompt, until I realized that the prompt did not remotely ask for anything regarding them/their relationship. Yet I always, always forget that it didn't really happen.

Tell me more about Lisa's cop dad! :D I am all for illustrious Braeden family histories and backgrounds.

[alexadean.livejournal.com]

Here's something I went off about with another person . . . your input is crucial to me. I want my interpretation of Dean to be well-rounded and your participation is greatly needed.

I lean toward darker, complicated motives. But every now and then I venture toward the light, just for some variety.

The pre-series Dean in my head wouldn't feel comfortable in taking the lead nor with being aggressive with Sam unless it's something Sam wants or spurs him into. He's too caught up with being protector.

Sure, Dean has resorted to physical violence with Sam, but that is standard issue if you've ever been in the military (although it's "banned" now). The only rules were not to cause danger to life, limb, or loss of eyesight. It would compromise the mission.

Physical abuse and sexual abuse are two different animals. You can justify physical abuse as means of punishment or discipline. People learn what not to do with negative reinforcement. Problem is there is an escalation of force. I can speak from personal experience.

Sexual abuse is more insidious and complicated and Dean would feel greatly uncomfortable. Being the older child he can't justify it. There is no purpose to it other than exploitation and there is a great percentage of narcissism in offenders. DEAN is anything BUT a narcissist although he'd like us to believe he is.

I've heard the argument that Dean doesn't have Sam's well-being in mind because of the implication of physical abuse and I'd have to disagree with others on that level.

It seems like a huge jump from one train of thought to another. Rapists are the exception but only because they use the means of one to get the other, which isn't the point at all. The person's terror is what they want, not sexual satisfaction.

If there were "sexy times" pre-series, it would have all been instigated by Sam. And I can picture it happening when Sam has nothing left to lose. Probably in the last year before leaving for Stanford.

Sam would have developed inappropriate feelings first given that he saw his brother grow up and may have stumbled across "too much" and it all became cross-wired in his brain.

Dean would have seen Sam as a baby and a child until one day Sam wasn't either, having become as much a man as his brother.

Dean in his early twenties was still very slender and twink-ish (have you seen him on Dark Angel? He was 23 then). You'd never know there was any difference in age given that Sam was very tall to begin with.

And maybe I'm projecting but I think Sam would have enjoyed using his height against Dean. Dean seemed as much a mythological figure to Sam as John was to Dean.

Dean being smaller made him attainable and human and vulnerable to Sam somehow. It put him on an even level.

Besides, I just love the thought of Dean having to stand on his heels to look Sam in the eye, or Sam having to tip Dean's head back to claim his mouth.

I think Sam and Dean were on even ground when it came to sparring or wrestling. To make up for Sam's overall length Dean had to compensate with greater agility and powers of strategy on short notice.

Dean's proven time and again, that he employs strategic moves: killing Eve, killing Zachariah, thwarting Michael, even planning his own suicide at the hands of Lucifer rather than living without Sam and he's better at deception than Sam is. He even knows what Sam is thinking before Sam himself knows. He's spent a lifetime watching and watching over Sam.

He may not care to have the academic know-how Sam's known for but he certainly makes up for it in ways that count in their line of work.

continuation of rant . . .

[alexadean.livejournal.com]

Alright, I've gone off on a tangent again.

Ridiculous. All I meant to say is that I agree with you. Sam would be less guilty, if at all. He's find a way to resolve whatever cognitive dissonance he'd experience. He's always been the voice of reason.

So Sam would definitely set out to prove that none of it is Dean's doing, that Sam's not being exploited (which I'm not sure if he is or not, as an adult I think it's up to the older person to guide the other, allowing it to happen is slightly less offensive as causing it).

In some states the age of consent is sixteen. So I don't know. All I know is Sam wouldn't have made a move until he put in his applications to colleges. His mindset being he's on his way anyway, either way he loses Dean, so he only has something to gain.

I think Sam also feels a bit possessive of Dean and may have taken Dean's blind devotion to John resentfully. It could also have been a 'fuck you' to their Dad on some pettier level although it was more of a bonus than a motivator.

I'll stop now.

[vie-dangerouse.livejournal.com]

Sorry, jumping in here, but I just have one caveat: I've heard the argument that Dean doesn't have Sam's well-being in mind because of the implication of physical abuse and I'd have to disagree with others on that level.

It seems like a huge jump from one train of thought to another. Rapists are the exception but only because they use the means of one to get the other, which isn't the point at all. The person's terror is what they want, not sexual satisfaction.

But it's hard to rape someone without a hard-on, right? So I think that there would have to be sexual satisfaction in there somewhere. The terror may be a large component of that, yes, but ultimately it's the sexual act that is performed. Or else it wouldn't be rape.

Personally, I don't think that John was physically abusive towards the boys, but perhaps that's just me being overly optimistic. Though I don't think there's any true basis for it in canon-- others in this thread have mentioned 5.16, "and when Dad got home...", but I don't think that that referred to physical abuse. I think merely that Dean held John's opinion of him in such high regard that anything that would lower himself in John's eyes was akin to mental torture for him.

Otherwise, I can totally buy Sam/Dean drunken blowjobs, but not much more than that. And I wouldn't call it my headcanon. XD I just like thinking about it. ;)

[juppschmitz.livejournal.com]

One headcanon I have is about Dean's spells of mutism.

In my mind he had the first one after Mary's death, got over it, but in difficult situations it would have happened again. That is until Sammy was older and Dean was old enough to have John charge him with looking after Sam. So, growing up it wouldn't have happened again, not until after Sam left for Stanford when any sort of stressful situation could send Dean into another spell. It would have driven John MAD!

Then, when Sam was back it didn't happen again until after Hell. In between any two episodes in S4, 5, 6 and especially 7 I see it happening again. Not all the time, but often enough to get Sam mad. Cause, you know, just like John he would have been more annoyed by it than anything else.

Oh, and I see child!Sam as an arrogant little intellectual snob. Who wouldn't have minded ridiculing Dean, even though he wouldn't have done it in public.

Also in my mind he felt entitled to everything he got. Even to stuff he didn't get. And he took Dean's care for granted, given how used to it he was. And it wouldn't occur to him that this is a two-way street, cause John only ever told Dean to look after Sam but never ever the other way around. So I don't particularly blame Sam here, but rather John.

Yep.

[kalliel]

kjas;lkfajs;lkgj So heartbreaking! I'd love to read about any one of these headcanons in the realm of fic. Or all of them at once???? I totally see your little bratty Sammy, too.

Dean trope

[alexadean.livejournal.com]

So I can't seem to make up my mind whether or not to adopt a Dean trope out there that portrays him as hotheaded and impulsive. I agree that Dean's capacity for anger is scary, but it seems he's willing to wait things out and come up with a plan before acting on it. When he does make seemingly reckless choices, he's really thought things through before acting on it.

He's great at strategy and knows when to run his mouth and when to play along. He knows when the ball is in his court and when it's not.

We know he hunted on his own when Sam went to Stanford. He took down two Vetalas without help. If he was impulsive he wouldn't have survived so long on his own.

So I don't know!! I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF IT? What do you believe?

Re: Dean trope

[kalliel]

Well, to my mind, Dean can be on the impulsive side, though not usually out of anger. I don't even know if this is just my headcanon or not any more, but I feel like Dean will recognize that something is probably a bad idea, or is Not the Right Thing To Do, and then elect to do it anyway. XP In both serious and non-serious circumstances. In a way the entire plot of S7 was fueled by this. We spent six seasons determining that vengeance was a poor motivator, and then one season trying to exact just that. Dean obsessed a lot about what Dick Roman was doing and how they might potentially kill him, but not that much time thinking about why, exactly they were doing this. (Beyond the surface-level "because he shot Bobby and gdi he's a bad motherfucker.") In 7x23 when Dean and Bobby have a brief exchange re: vengeful spirits I think it's Show acknowledging this strange turnaround, and Dean in turn acknowledging, yes, okay, this is not intelligent but we're going to do it anyway. Maybe something meant more to them than what the logically best (and perhaps ethically best) path might have been.

ANYWAY to leave that tangent that is my thought. And I'd cast Sam as the more hot-headed, even as he is also very compassionate (see: Sam wanting to seek out YED in S1/2, Sam killing Jake in 2x22, etc.). Lovely of them to both be so damn complicated! XP